Is Diksha given by a Guru who is not approved by his guru valid?
(Part of the Series “Duties of a disciple to his guru”)
In this part, let me take a question of a devotee.
A Girl devotee (Name hidden) asked like this:
“Hare Krishna, please accept my obeisances! I have a difficult (for me and other devotees) question:
Our Guru (I leave the name out for obvious reasons) is non-ISKCON, he first was a disciple of …………… , but after he fell down, received initiation from …………….. Here comes the hard part: Our Guru never received permission from his new guru to start accepting disciples. He went back to …………. (country) and continued preaching the Holy Name all over the country. And accepting disciples, giving initiation to those who thought he could do it. Our Guru is a dedicated Vaishnava and ascetic, he dedicated decades of his life to Krishna Consciousness. But the problem is that he created like a separate bubble where he doesn’t have any equals or those who are higher than him in devotional service, he only has disciples. Looks like he himself doesn’t have any sadhu sanga.
My first question is: Can we consider ourselves truly initiated (there was a yagna) since he wasn’t approved by his Guru to perform initiations and have disciples? I have 2 initiations but the 2nd one wasn’t performed the way it is described (like the mantra should be whispered into the disciple’s ear by the Guru, etc)…
Please, forgive me if I shouldn’t have asked these questions. Also please leave my name out when publishing your answer. I hope that your answer will help us to clear our doubts… All glory to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga, ……………… DD.”
REPLY:
A Guru is considered to be bonafide only if his guru permitted him to accept disciples. The Diksha given by a Guru who is not approved by his guru is not valid.
Srila Prabhupada has clearly said that everyone can become guru by following their gurus. This is called Parampara.
If a person is ordered by his guru, he too can accept the disciples.
If a person is not ordered by his guru, he can’t accept the disciples.
I have written about the Self styled gurus in this link given below. Read that also:
(Can we follow a devotee who claims himself diksha Guru? READ HERE?)
Moreover, when one’s guru is alive, one should not accept the disciples unless his guru himself orders him to accept disciples.
When one’s guru is alive, he should send the aspirants of initiation to his guru. Since his guru is alive, he should not initiate those aspirants.
Srila Prabhupada in his Lecture on SB 1.15.28 in Los Angeles, December 6, 1973:
“You become a spiritual master under my order, under His order. Don’t manufacture yourself. Under the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. That is called paramparā system, one who is following in disciplic succession- the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.”
Srila Prabhupada in his Lecture on SB 1.16.20 – Hawaii, January 16, 1974:
Narottama dasa Ṭhakura says, ei chay gosani janr mui tanr dasa: “I become servant, servant or disciple, of such a person who follows the footprints of the six Gosvamis.” Otherwise one becomes guru, anyone, just like nowadays they become. They are manufacturing guru. Guru is not manufactured. Guru is in the disciplic succession, one who is strictly follows the footsteps of the ṣaḍ-gosvamis.
(Identifying Fake Godmen & Recovering mind brainwashed by him! READ HERE!)
Srila Prabhupada in his Lecture on SB 1.7.38-39 – Vrndavana, September 30, 1976:
The Englishmen, in an organized way, they taught the Indians how to become servant of the Englishmen. We have seen. It is Gandhi’s movement that he dismantled this idea of white prestige. Otherwise, we were taught like that. So this imitation of Englishmen… Formerly, in our childhood, it was the advancement of civilization if one could imitate the English fashion. That was. So we should not make that a fashion. Guru is not a fashion.
Srila Prabhupada in his Lecture on BG 9.3 — Toronto, June 20, 1976:
So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to enlighten people so that they can accept these principles of Bhagavad-gītā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s mission is para-upakāra. And He advises everyone, especially Indians, to become guru. He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Every one of you, you become a guru, and try to deliver the persons where you are living. So how can I become guru? Yes, it is very easy. What is that? Yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Then you become guru. You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you become guru. To become guru is not… But if you want to be a bluffer, cheater, then you can talk all nonsense. But if you actually talk only Kṛṣṇa’s words, then you become a guru
NOTE:
“Follow what Krishna said” means, Krishna said in Bhagavad Gita that the Bhagavad Gita was told via parampara system and then that link broke. Therefore, if one wants to be a guru, as Krishna said, he should follow Parampara.
(How should the followers take if their Godman is found a violator? READ HERE!)
You may raise a question now:
Who is considered to be in Parampara (disciplic succession)?
Only if one’s predecessor approves someone as his successor, he is considered to be in Parampara (disciplic succession).
Though everyone has Parents, those parents should tell that he/she is their son/daughter. Unless they recognize him and make known to the world, he can’t claim to be in their Parampara (disciplic succession).
One may read all the syllabus of MBA studies on his own at his home without writing the official university exams and without getting the recognized degree certificate. Can he call himself as an MBA qualified?
Not possible. He might have learnt the syllabus, but he has not been declared as QUALIFIED IN MBA by a recognized university.
Similarly, a person might have the good oral and written skills and he may even claim to be a great guru. But, if that person is to be considered to be in a Guru Parampara, his guru should recognize him to be the next guru to continue his mission. Otherwise, he is a rascal as said by Srila Prabhupada.
Therefore, For one to be a guru, his guru should recognize him to be a Guru.
In your case, your guru deserted his first guru because of his fall down.
Then, he accepted another diksha guru.
(How should the women escape from the bogus gurus who mock Rasa leela? READ HERE!)
This is permitted by the sastras. If a guru falls down, he can desert that guru and accept another guru.
But, he should have got the permission of his second guru to accept disciples when he is alive.
Your guru did not do that.
So, you can desert him and accept a bonafide guru in the bonafide Guru Parampara.
If you want to take diksha from any ISKCON Guru, you can contact the nearby ISKCON temple. They will guide you and help you to qualify for that.
In ISKCON, they have monitoring system and GBC is the topmost authority to regulate everything.
So, my reply to you (based on your given details) is:
Your current guru is not a bonafide guru as he is not approved by his living guru. The Diksha given by a Guru who is not approved by his guru is not valid.
So, your discipleship with him need not be continued.
Get diksha from a bonafide guru of your choice. Then follow this new guru sincerely!
Hope you are now clear whether the Diksha given by a Guru who is not approved by his guru valid or not.
(Is the system of appointing the gurus beneficial and effective? READ HERE!)